8 MARCH 1940NIRODBARAN: Nishikanto has passed a distressing night. He says that whatever little faith and devotion he had has left him. Now the physical also, with which he wanted to serve the Divine, is out of gear. So he is getting depressed. SRI AUROBINDO: Why depression? The thing is to get cured. NIRODBARAN: He doesn't believe he will be cured. He was thinking he would go where his eyes took him. SRI AUROBINDO: In English they say: "To follow your nose." But what is his complaint at present? NIRODBARAN: Pain. Pain is constant though he doesn't feel it. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: How is that? If he doesn't feel it, how can there be pain? NIRODBARAN: I don't understand either. He says that with any jerk the pain comes. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, he means that. But one can get spiritual experiences in illness too. The illness doesn't stand in the way of getting spiritual experiences. PURANI: Besides, what is there to be depressed about? Punnuswamy had ulceration and he lived only on milk for quite a number of years and yet he has been doing Yoga. NIRODBARAN: Yes, he has faith. Nishikanto has lost his faith. His faith comes with a cure and goes with an illness. (Laughter) CHAMPAKLAL: How can permanent faith be established? SRI AUROBINDO: By having it permanently. (Laughter) CHAMPAKLAL: I mean, does it depend on experience, growth of consciousness and other things, or is it inborn? SRI AUROBINDO: All that. Some people have full faith from the beginning. CHAMPAKLAL: How? Acquired from a previous birth? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, or owing to Karma or consciousness. Some have faith at the end. Some go on doubting even after having experiences. CHAMPAKLAL: All have faith in that way. SATYENDRA: If all had faith, everybody would come to do Sri Aurobindo's Yoga. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Or they have faith but they don't feel it like Nishikanto's pain. That is a splendid statement. Page-538 NIRODBARAN: Somebody had a vision in meditation. Above his head was projected the cornice of a building and the cornice was covering the sun far up high but the rays of the sun had illuminated the sky on the opposite side of the cornice. Any meaning? SRI AUROBINDO: It is very simple. The vision is symbolic. The building is the mental construction. The cornice is the roof. The mental building is coming between the mind and the sun of Truth. PURANI (pointing at Nirodbaran from behind Sri Aurobindo and laughing): It is his own vision probably. SRI AUROBINDO (to Nirodbaran): Is the "somebody" yourself? NIRODBARAN: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: That is very promising. NIRODBARAN: How? SRI AUROBINDO: It means the crust is going . NIRODBARAN: But the sun is far, far away. (Laughter) A wasp had built a nest behind one of the paintings in Sri Aurobindo's room and it was constantly coming and going. P broke the nest and threw two pupas. Sri Aurobindo remarked that the jains would object to it. P said, "Yes, violently." 9 MARCH 1940SATYENDRA: Do ascent and descent of consciousness take place only through the head? SRI AUROBINDO: No, they can take place through the lower centres also. SATYENDRA: Nirod had the idea that they happen only through the head. I was thinking of Sahana's experience of ascent and descent. SRI AUROBINDO: Did she have that experience? NIRODBARAN: The one we told you about. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh that? Her usual ascent-descent? NIRODBARAN: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: That is different. That is common among most people who have an opening. That is the ascent and descent of one's own consciousness, while what I am speaking of is the whole being going up to the Divine Consciousness and coming down with it. Page-539 NIRODBARAN: The distinction is still not very clear. SRI AUROBINDO: In the usual experience, it is one's habitual consciousness that rises: it may be any part of the being, the mental, vital or physical, that goes up to the higher planes above the mind and stays there for a time; some organisation takes place and then the consciousness comes down with some result. In the ascent and descent about which I have written in The Life Divine, the whole being—you may call it the Self—goes up, say, to the Overmind, settles there and meets the Divine and then the descent of the Divine takes place. Obviously this is more difficult. SATYENDRA: Is descent easier than ascent? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: I thought it was through the head alone that both happen. SRI AUROBINDO: It is usually through the mind, when the mental consciousness goes up, but it can happen otherwise also, the vital or physical consciousness directly going up without passing through the mental. NIRODBARAN: Sahana's experience of ascent and her feeling of nothingness and then her return with the sense of a flame in the heart —is it an experience of an ascent through the heart? SRI AUROBINDO: I don't remember well. In her case it wouldn't be through the mind. But all the same it is a major ascent into the spiritual consciousness. SATYENDRA: I had also the experience of ascent through the Muladhara Chakra before doing any Yoga. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the physical consciousness ascending. NIRODBARAN: It would be nice to have this experience of ascent and descent. SRI AUROBINDO: Remove that "cornice"! PURANI: One Pradhan, an M.L.C. of Bombay, has written a letter asking for darshan and wanting to meet you. He says he had the privilege of translating your speech at the Surat Congress and that you may know him. SRI AUROBINDO: How can I know him? Anyone could stand up and translate my speech. You can tell him that I give only silent darshan three times a year. It won't be true to say that I don't talk with my disciples. (Laughter) Page-540 SATYENDRA: If the Supermind is involved in matter, why should the divine intervention and descent be necessary? It can evolve by itself. SRI AUROBINDO: There was intervention in the evolution of the mind too and so will there be for the Supermind. The forces of the Inconscience are too strong. That is why the intervention is needed. Otherwise in the ordinary course of evolution it would take a very long time. The forces of the Inconscience are there to prevent any premature evolution and they exert a strong downward pull. There is also an upward pull. Mind and Supermind are involved in matter just as they are in the Superconscience. It is by waking up their corresponding forces below by the upward pull and the corresponding force mounting up and meeting those from above that the evolution can be complete. PURANI: Is spiritual experience possible without the awakening of the psychic? SRI AUROBINDO: What do you mean by the awakening? The psychic may be simply awake or it may take command of the being. But spiritual experience is not possible without the psychic awakening—occult experience can occur without it. NIRODBARAN: Then, when the experiences stop, it means that the psychic has gone to sleep. SRI AUROBINDO : It may be the over activity of the other parts that stops them. NIRODBARAN: In our own case I don't see any over activity due to which they could have stopped. SRI AUROBINDO: In your case it may be under activity. (Laughter) But you had the experience of the "cornice"! NIRODBARAN: Is there some decision by the Higher Force to stop experiences in this or that fellow because they may be bad for him? (Laughter) PURANI: He thinks his experiences have been intentionally stopped. NIRODBARAN: But can't it be true that when work goes on in some plane, for example, the subconscient, experiences may get suspended? SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. Not only the subconscient but also the physical. It all depends on how far one has gone. Page-541 10 MARCH 1940PURANI: A Kashmiri Brahmachari has come for Darshan. He was lying near the gate at night. He seems to have done Rajayoga and had some experiences. SATYENDRA: He seems to be a fine personality. NIRODBARAN: Person or personality? SATYENDRA: Personality -the physical - SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, the physical? SATYENDRA: I was more concerned about his belongings. Somebody could have taken them while he was sleeping outside the gate. SRI AUROBINDO: You mean some of our innocent servants who don't know what they are doing? (Laughter) PURANI: He says he has lost his peace and has come in search of it. SRI AUROBINDO: For peace he can go to Ramana Maharshi. When people come here for peace I always ask them to go to him. NIRODBARAN: Why? Can't they get peace here? SATYENDRA: They may even lose whatever peace they have! SRI AUROBINDO: They may get disturbed by the complex working here. SATYENDRA: Here peace is not the main object. In the Mother's Conversations, the first thing she says is: "What do you want Yoga for? For peace? It is not enough." At the Maharshi's place it is different. People do get peace there because it is almost the main thing. CHAMPAKLAL: One really can't get peace here if one wants it? SRI AUROBINDO: It depends on the person. Europeans who come here get peace, they say. It is because they come with an agitated mind, I suppose. DR. RAO: I am so glad, Sir, to see you sitting and writing. In August you will be able to give us blessings. SRI AUROBINDO: I am giving them even now. SATYENDRA: He is speaking of all the people, as in the past. CHAMPAKLAL: There is no more chance for that. SATYENDRA: Why? Why do you close the door like that? (Sri Aurobindo smiled.) Page-542 CHAMPAKLAL: How can it be possible with so many people? Even without an accident the blessings would have been stopped some day. The accident served as an excuse. SRI AUROBINDO: Do you mean I broke my leg to stop the blessings? (Laughter) CHAMPAKLAL: No, no, I don't mean that. NIRODBARAN: It's like Dr. Becharlal's remark. He said that he had been aspiring and aspiring to hear you, to talk with you, and now with your accident he has been lucky. SRI AUROBINDO: Dr. Manilal also wanted to hear my voice. SATYENDRA: I too and everyone wanted that. We all hope that some day you will come out; everybody will hear you talk and see you. SRI AUROBINDO: Supermind-that has to come first. NIRODBARAN: But who knows —after Supermind comes you may busy yourself with something else. SATYENDRA: The Mother also is gradually withdrawing. There is practically no physical contact. SRI AUROBINDO (looking at Nirodbabaran): Wasn't it Dilip who said that after the withdrawal of the contact he was progressing more? NIRODBARAN: Progressing? He seems to have said that the physical contact is not the main thing. At first he was very upset, then got accustomed perhaps. SATYENDRA: One gradually gets accustomed to anything. SRI AUROBINDO: Like getting accustomed to blackouts? (Laughter) PURANI: In blackouts it is the blind men who are the most useful. Being accustomed to darkness they know all the ways and so they can lead the others. SRI AUROBINDO: So it is a case of the blind leading not the blind but the seeing! CHAMPAKLAL: I know a blind Sadhu who could recognise by the sound whether it was a one-anna piece or a two-anna one. SATYENDRA: He acquired a money-sense. SRI AUROBINDO: Was it the only sense he was aware of? CHAMPAKLAL: By their footsteps he could know persons. SRI AUROBINDO: Footsteps, of course. Everybody has his own peculiar way of walking. SATYENDRA: There is a talk of the Darshan taking place in April now. People are asking us about it. If we say, "We don't know," they Page-543 get angry and retort, "Oh, you are having Darshan every day and so you don't care." (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know myself. Maybe. (Purani was signalling from behind to Nirodbaran that there would be Darshan.) SATYENDRA: Purani knows. SRI AUROBINDO: He does? PURANI: There is a chance. The Mother perhaps doesn't want to say anything because many people may ask for permission. SATYENDRA: If the sadhaks know, it's sure to leak out. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Spreading news has become a yogic siddhi. (Laughter) Even before anything is decided it leaks out! NIRODBARAN: We tell friends and say, "Don't tell it to anybody else." The friend repeats the same to his friend and everybody keeps his secret except from one friend. SRI AUROBINDO: So it becomes a universal secret. DR. RAO: The swelling of the leg is about the same as when I saw it last. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is because I am doing the exercises now. At one time it became almost normal like the other leg. DR. RAO: Perhaps the circulation hasn't been fully established yet and that may also be the cause of deficient flexion to a certain extent. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: What has circulation to do with flexion? SRI AUROBINDO: It has something to do with it, because after the exercise I feel the joint getting stiff and feel there is no circulation NIRODBARAN: That may be to a certain extent.
EVENING
PURANI: The Hindu has published a review by Varadachari of The Life Divine. Have you seen it? He seems to have reviewed it well. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I was afraid they might send the book to X. Varadachari couldn't have said more within the space given him. DR. BECHARLAL: Wouldn't X's review have been favourable? SRI AUROBINDO: No. He is orthodox and not open to new ideas. Page-544 NIRODBARAN: A writes that K has sent you a request through Suren Ghose to save him. SRI AUROBINDO: Save him? What is the matter? NIRODBARAN: He means spiritually. Kazi Nazrul has also approached with the same request. SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): When K was here he stayed a long time. He used to say, "The movement won't grow, won't grow." (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: It seems his movement is still not growing. SRI AUROBINDO: He has asked for permission to stay here. But the Mother hasn't approved. PURANI: The Mother has given permission. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh? PURANI: For Darshan. SRI AUROBINDO: No, he wanted to be a disciple. He was here during the mysterious stone-throwing without any apparent physical agency. He was very frightened and said that Barin and Upen didn't understand the seriousness of the matter. PURANI: I remember his joke about a Tamil servant. He didn't know Tamil. A servant said, "Terima?" He replied, "What terima? I am tera baba."¹ (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: He is a very humorous fellow. NIRODBARAN: Is he Bengali? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, his people have been settled in Bengal for a long time, like Motilal Roy's. PURANI: Prithwi Singh and some others are also practically Bengali. NIRODBARAN: But they don't follow Bengali customs. They speak Hindi at home. PURANI: That is not Hindi, I can tell you. SRI AUROBINDO: Then neither Hindi nor Bengali. One of their ladies wrote a letter to the Mother. It was a queer affair. People become Bengalis very easily. The Mahrattas whom I knew were practically Bengalis—except for their stubbornness. (Addressing Purani after some talk on political subjects) Gandhi has declared that he is not going to be hustled into a struggle. The country is not yet ready. Some paper has remarked that if Gandhi
¹In Tamil " Terima" means "Do you know?" but in Hindi, "Your mother?" In Hindi "Tera baba" means "Your father." Page-545 won't launch the struggle before the country is ready according to his demands, then the country will never be ready. There is some truth in that. PURANI: Yes, it is very difficult. SRI AUROBINDO : Not very difficult-as good as impossible.
11 MARCH 1940SATYENDRA: Jayantilal was asking if a glossary was going to be prepared for The Life Divine. SRI AUROBINDO: Glossary for what? Sanskrit terms? SATYENDRA: He didn't tell me exactly. It may be for the new Yogic terms also. Perhaps he wants it more for himself than for others. He finds it difficult, for instance, to catch the distinction between extraterrestrial and extra-cosmic. SRI AUROBINDO: If it is for Sanskrit terms I can understand. You can't write of Yoga without using Sanskrit terms.
There followed a short talk on R. Purani showed Sri Aurobindo a poem of R.'s in answer to Yeats' poem "The Lover Tells of the Rose in His Heart".
SRI AUROBINDO (after reading the poem): These people write now and then very fine lines. Here's an example: "Embrace the malice in the dragon's fold." It is a really fine line. PURANI: Here are four lines of J's, as if in answer to R. SRI AUROBINDO (on reading them): There is a poetic competition between Yeats, R and J! When R was sending me his poems, I found some fine lines amidst a mass of nonsense. With his wonderful vital energy he could have succeeded in any line he took up, but his vital being was rather undisciplined. PURANI: When he showed me his poems I told him to try to improve his form and advised him to see Amal's poems. He saw them and said, "That chip of a boy—what does he know of poetry?" SRI AUROBINDO: That chip of a boy knows how to write and R doesn't.
After this, Nirodbaran read out two letters. One was from Buddhadev Bhattacharya. Buddhadev had written that he had talked about Sri Aurobindo in his class. Page-546 SRI AUROBINDO: How do I come into a class of botany? SATYENDRA: Perhaps as an example of evolution? SRI AUROBINDO: From the red lotus known as "aurobindo"? (Laughter)
Then everybody enjoyed Charu Dutt's letter in which he said that he would very soon let loose a flood of stories about Pondicherry. This was just what Satyendra had predicted before Dutt's departure.
EVENING
SATYENDRA: I hear that the glossary to The Life Divine is going to be prepared by Sisir Mitra. I don't know what precisely he intends doing. Perhaps he will give a definition of every term. PURANI: It can't be a definition. For the meaning of a term will vary in different contexts. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the meaning has to be taken with reference to the context. A definition ties down the meaning. SATYENDRA: Other philosophers have well-defined terms of their own. SRI AUROBINDO: That is why their philosophies are so rigid. One can give only an indication. In spiritual subjects, one can't give anything more. SATYENDRA: There will be so many commentaries on The Life Divine in the future. PURANI: There won't be much room for them. There is a sufficient body of mental reasoning in the book for everyone to be able to understand it. If the book had been like the Sutras, there would have been more room. SRI AUROBINDO: Even so, I suppose different interpretations will be made, just as there are Hegelians and Neo-Hegelians. Shankara wrote a brief commentary on the Gita and then there were many commentaries on his commentary. But in The Life Divine some of the chapters run to sixty or seventy pages of exposition.
12 MARCH 1940NIRODBARAN: The Yuvaraja of Mysore is dead. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. He had double pneumonia. We had a wire two days back. He had been suffering from high Page-547 blood-pressure for a long time. There seems no chance now of our getting the goat we had been promised. Krishnalal will be disappointed. Who will succeed the Yuvaraja? PURANI: His son. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, then the son may fulfil his father's promise. CHAMPAKLAL: They will send the goat all right since they have made the promise. SRI AUROBINDO: There seems to be a strain of weakness in these Yuvarajas. Sukul, who wanted to bring the late Yuvaraja here, appears to be an unlucky fellow. He had wanted to bring one of the Rockfellers but the man died. And now that he wanted to bring the Yuvaraja he too is dead. The present Maharaja is said to be a pious person. SATYENDRA: Yes, Sir. SRI AUROBINDO: In what way? SATYENDRA: He has no vices, observes religious ceremonies, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: A moral man? SATYENDRA: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: Is he really an able man or is the credit for the well-organised State due to one of the Dewans? Sir Albion Banerji was the Dewan, wasn't he? He was a very able man. PURANI: Shivaswami Ayer also. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, then he has had a succession of able Dewans. SATYENDRA: During the recent Mysore University centenary celebrations, one of their boasts was that they had supplied many Dewans to Mysore. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. SATYENDRA: Somebody has disputed the date of the centenary. He says that it has been held thirteen years too early. SRI AUROBINDO: How is that? He must have been an archaeologist and has perhaps unearthed an inscription? PURANI: Mysore is a highly developed industrial State. SRI AUROBINDO: Are there any private industries? PURANI: Yes, some are State-aided and some are run by the State itself. SRI AUROBINDO: It is the private industries that make for the prosperity of the State. The State can only show the way. Page-548 PURANI (after a while): Belisha is crying himself hoarse! NIRODBARAN: Purani's raising this topic is rather strange, because I was just thinking of asking you about the same thing. Hore-Belisha is pleading strongly for Allied intervention in favour of Finland. SRI AUROBINDO: The situation is risky from all standpoints. If they intervene, Russia will send military aid to Germany. So far it has not done so. Only an economic agreement has been made. But if the Allies don't intervene, then after taking Finland, Russia will wait for an advantageous moment to strike at the Allies. PURANI: Besides, one does not know what Italy will do. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Italy's position is still uncertain. PURANI: It may decide to join Russia and Germany. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. But if Italy joins them, the stalemate in the Siegfried Line will come to an end. France will be able to launch a direct attack through Italy. The Italian defence is well-known to be defective. NIRODBARAN: But Germany and Russia seem to have a common understanding. SRI AUROBINDO: Probably. Even then, if the Allies intervene, they will have to face an attack in the Near East. Russia may attack Turkey and send forces to India. The Allies, though they have some armies there, are not abounding in strength. Of course, they can also attack Russia through Asia Minor. In any case it is a very risky game. NIRODBARAN: Russia won't stop at Finland. She may try next for Sweden. SRI AUROBINDO: No - the Balkans more likely. If she had any intentions against Sweden she would not leave the Finland struggle half-finished. NIRODBARAN: People say that Hore-Belisha may have resigned over Finnish policy. SRI AUROBINDO: Possibly, though they were said to have had entire agreement there.
13 MARCH 1940Satyendra brought some photographs of Brahmananda, Balananda and Purnananda.
SRI AUROBINDO (looking at Brahmananda's picture): He was not so haggard -when I saw him. (About Balananda's) He was young when I saw him. In this photo he looks very jolly. (About another photo of him) Yes, this is more like him. Who is Purnananda? SATYENDRA: His disciple perhaps. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, I seem to have heard his name. SATYENDRA: Balananda had his Ashram in Deoghar. So Anilkumar and Jayantilal were asking if you knew him and what you thought of him. SRI AUROBINDO: I saw him only once. He was doing much Tapasya. SATYENDRA: Our Keshav Shastri has taken a vow of silence and Madangopal's friend has broken his. Ravindra gives me all these stories. When our sugar was being rationed, Ravindra said to me, "Take from Shastri's tin. He is silent, he can't protest." (Laughter) PURANI: He can write, and write strongly, I can tell you. SRI AUROBINDO: He will consider the sugar-taking an outrage on his silence, but the vow of silence should include writing. Why speech only? Plenty of people don't speak, but they write. Gandhi is one, isn't he? SATYENDRA: Yes, Sir. Meher Baba too. SRI AUROBINDO: You can tell Shastri that sugar is not necessary for a life of silence but only for calorific speech. SATYENDRA: Radhananda also observes silence. CHAMPAKLAL: But he talks with particular people. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Sarala¹ used to talk a lot with him during their French lessons, till they quarrelled over Communism. CHAMPAKLAL: Radhananda said Sarala was a newspaper. SRI AUROBINDO: But not a very reliable one. (Laughter) PURANI: She quarrelled -with Kanai also. SRI AUROBINDO: She quarrelled with everybody. PURANI: She seems to be staying in a Protestant home in France. SATYENDRA: I had heard she was staying with a friend. SRI AUROBINDO: She was, but they started beating each other. So she went to a home where she could talk of Communism and plot against Daladier.
¹The Ashram name of an old French lady. Page-550 NIRODBARAN: She departed from India, it seems, because she was afraid of dying here. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: And if she died here she would be reborn here. SRI AUROBINDO: Do all Europeans who die here get reborn in India? NIRODBARAN: She wanted to die in a free country. SRI AUROBINDO: I understand living in a free country—but dying? PURANI: She was a great eater. SRI AUROBINDO : Both Suchi¹ and Sarala were great eaters. NIRODBARAN: They say the French usually are. SRI AUROBINDO: Not like the Germans. The Germans eat three times more. They are fond of good food. Plenty of French people are abstemious and temperate. The Nordic races are good eaters while the Latins are temperate. PURANI: The English also are good eaters. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but not so much as the Germans. True, they eat four times a day, but each meal is not large.
EVENING
SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Are the Russo-Finnish peace terms confirmed? PURANI: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: Why did the Finns fight then? PURANI: They perhaps expected that the Western Powers would help them. NIRODBARAN: The Allies say there was no official approach from the Finns. PURANI: That is nonsense. According to the League Covenant, they are obliged to help. SRI AUROBINDO: If Norway and Sweden object to the passage of troops across their territory, then nothing can be done. PURANI: The Finns had plenty of ammunition and arms. There was a dearth of men. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, both England and France have supplied them with plenty of ammunition.
¹The Ashram name of Sarala's husband. Page-551 NIRODBARAN: By this treaty the Russians will be at an advantage. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. What will happen next is the question. Perhaps Russia will now turn south against Rumania and Turkey. And that will be world war. For the Allies have guaranteed Rumania, and already Turkey is allied to them. Then India too will have to fight Russia. NIRODBARAN: What about Hungary? SRI AUROBINDO: Hungary depends on Italy. NIRODBARAN: Perhaps Norway and Sweden have been threatened by Germany? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it is a frightened self-interest that has overtaken these people. Each of them thinks that he will be safe, whereas actually each will be swallowed up in turn. It seems the Allies will have to fight single-handed, if there is world war, against Russia and Germany—a formidable combination! As Hore-Belisha has pointed out, the blockade can't be successful. There are so many neutral countries on the German border and the resources of Russia will be available to Germany. NIRODBARAN: Will Germany tolerate a Russian attack on Rumania? Germany itself is in need of Rumanian oil. SRI AUROBINDO: They are both working in agreement. What Russia wants is Bessarabia, control in the Black Sea, and in the Balkans, over Turkey. In exchange for that she can agree to let Germany have Rumanian oil. Russia has plenty of oil for herself. So she doesn't need it. NIRODBARAN: What about Italy? She doesn't want Russian influence in the Balkans. SRI AUROBINDO: If the Allies are clever enough, they can win over Italy. If Italy gets Yugoslavia and Greece, she will come round. If Russia is clever enough, she may attack Rumania first. Turkey has reserved the right of peace with Russia. But if she does keep peaceful she will be swallowed up next. NIRODBARAN: Russia will meet with a stiffer resistance in the south. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, both Rumania and Turkey are prepared. PURANI: But if Turkey remains neutral, then the Allies can't help Rumania. They have to pass through Turkey. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The same situation will arise as with Norway and Sweden in connection with Finland. Page-552 NIRODBARAN: What will India do if Russia attacks? India has no army. SRI AUROBINDO (after raising both his hands): Of course it will take time, England will have to shift ammunition and army to India and give training little by little. There will be recruitment in India. SATYENDRA: Recruitment may not be very successful in the face of Britain's present attitude. SRI AUROBINDO: But Britain will be more accommodating. NIRODBARAN: Russia will have to attack through Afghanistan. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, of course it will be difficult. PURANI: Afghanistan, Gabriel says, is afraid of Russia. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, she has always been afraid of a Russian attack. There is no chance for the world unless something happens in Germany or else Hitler and Stalin quarrel. But there is no such likelihood at present. NIRODBARAN: No. That may happen at the end. Hitler thinks perhaps that he can handle Stalin easily afterwards. SRI AUROBINDO: And Stalin thinks he can deal with Hitler. NIRODBARAN: German soldiers are better fighters than the Russians. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but Russia has tremendous resources and immense manpower. PURANI: Somebody said that the Allies have a chance if they fight Russia in the north. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. As has been shown, the Russian forces are inefficient. Even the Finns gave them a good resistance. The Allies would have some chance of success — unless they tried to attack Moscow, which would be difficult. PURANI: Norway and Sweden made it all impossible. Of course the Allies couldn't help through Latvia. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, no. That would have been sheer madness. With the combined forces of German and Russian submarines, fleet, etc., they would have been crushed. PURANI : Did you read Hitler's speech? He seems to have given a sermon. SRI AUROBINDO : I don't read his speeches. They are the same thing repeated. PURANI : He seems to see God's hand in everything. Page-553 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but would he do that if he were knocked down? That would be the test. So far it is the hand of Hitler's God that is in everything.
14 MARCH 1940NIRODBARAN: Pothan Joseph, editor of the Indian Express, has written his impressions of the Darshan of February 21. PURANI: I didn't know he is the brother of George Joseph. George is said to have read all your works. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. But I can't understand this editor's position. He says he is an impenitent rationalist and yet calls Jesus the only Avatar! PURANI: And he is an agnostic too! SATYENDRA: He doesn't know himself what he is. PURANI: A lady of an aristocratic family in Broach has written to you for help. She is the wife of an England-returned man who squanders all her money and doesn't give her any religious freedom. She is a devotee of Krishna and sees him in visions. Once Krishna asked her, "What do you want?" She replied, "I want to have darshan of Goloka." Krishna answered, "That is very difficult." And from that time her difficulties in family life have increased. She also hears voices. Now she asks you to help her to see the integral Being of Krishna. SRI AUROBINDO: If she hears voices and has guidance, she can ask Krishna himself. (Laughter) Do these family difficulties trouble her mind? PURANI: I should think so. SRI AUROBINDO: That is why she finds it difficult to have darshan of Goloka. SATYENDRA: Somehow I distrust these voices. SRI AUROBINDO: Because it reminds you of "specially favoured people"? There is a true voice that comes, but it is not so common as people make it out to be. Gandhi hears voices only during crises. PURANI: In times of conflict when he himself can't decide the pros and cons. NIRODBARAN: X has written, asking for some advice. It seems some Muslim fakir gave him a mantra—OM Hring—twenty years Page-554 ago. He has been repeating it since then and sometimes 20,000 times a day. PURANI and SATYENDRA: A Muslim fakir gave him such a mantra? SRI AUROBINDO: I must say the result has been catastrophic. NIRODBARAN: Now he wants to know whether he should repeat it any more. He meditates on the Mother in the heart and goes on repeating the mantra. SRI AUROBINDO: What is the use of repeating a mantra if he remains what he is? He can't have any realisation if he goes on like that. NIRODBARAN: Shall I write that? SRI AUROBINDO: No, I don't want him to stop the mantra if he has been using it for such a long time. You may write that there is no need to stop it but he must not forget the other parts of Yoga. NIRODBARAN: To the mantra he himself added "Salutations to the Guru." SRI AUROBINDO: Dovetailed it with the mantra? (Laughter) SATYENDRA: He will spoil both. NIRODBARAN : A has asked to clear some English constructions in The Life Divine which he couldn't understand. PURANI: Olaf also doesn't understand The Life Divine. He was telling Amrita, '"Or rather; or rather'-what does all that mean?" SRI AUROBINDO: He doesn't know English, and what he writes is Swedish English. He says reading The Life Divine is all sadhana. Sadhana of hunger and incapacity. (Laughter) PURANI: He says it should be like the Bible: "O ye!" SRI AUROBINDO: "Suffer the little children to come unto me"? PURANI: Yes.
EVENING
NIRODBARAN: O'Dwyer has been shot dead in an East London hall by a Punjabi, and Zetland and others have been hit. SRI AUROBINDO: The Punjab seems to have a predilection for shooting in London. The previous time it was Dhingra. PURANI: Yes. But this has no political significance, it seems. Page-555 SRI AUROBINDO: The right man has been shot but at the wrong time. NIRODBARAN: All the same, it is good in a way. SRI AUROBINDO: How? NIRODBARAN: He has paid for his crime. SATYENDRA: Moral retribution? PURANI: It is too late now. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he should have been shot after the Jallianwalla incident. NIRODBARAN: Perhaps there was no opportunity. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? There was plenty of opportunity in London. PURANI: But he was guarded all the time. SRI AUROBINDO: He would not have been guarded by detectives during lectures. If Zetland had died, there would have been a sensation. And if the Punjabi could have had all three in the bag, that would have been something-ex-Governors, ex-Secretaries of State! PURANI : O'Dwyer used to write in The Times against Congress and Reforms, saying, "I told you so," etc. SRI AUROBINDO : If after being shot he could say, "I told you so," it would be quite appropriate. (Laughter) 15 MARCH 1940PURANI : Sisir Mitra was praising highly the style of the revised chapters of The Synthesis of Yoga. He asks when you will complete it. SATYENDRA: Its completion should logically follow that of The Life Divine. SRI AUROBINDO : I have to finish The Psychology of Social Development and The Ideal of Human Unity. Herbert showed the former to his friends. They said it would have a very good sale in Europe if translated. But the danger is that it might be translated in a rather rigid style. NIRODBARAN: I hear the Mother's French style is very fine. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. And it is also very clear. Haven't you seen it in the Conversations? NIRODBARAN: I know too little French to judge. Page-556 SRI AUROBINDO : French style is always clear. It is very difficult to translate The Life Divine into French. PURANI: The Life Divine will be difficult to translate into any language. SRI AUROBINDO : Except German. German is the language for philosophy. SATYENDRA: How? SRI AUROBINDO: It is hard and abstract. NIRODBARAN: Kant's language! PURANI: The Future Poetry also may sell well in England and America. SRI AUROBINDO: Not in England. There the age of modernism is on, and my stand is quite different. PURANI: Amiya Chakravarti also praised the style of The Life Divine. NIRODBARAN: Dilip finds the second volume finer than the first. He sees the proofs with Sisir and says to him, "Wait, wait. Let me quote this." (Laughter) Amiya said to Sisir, "We want something new. Has Sri Aurobindo written anything recently?" Sisir asked, "Have you read The Life Divine?" Amiya replied, "No." So Sisir said, "Then it is new for you." (Laughter) SATYENDRA: Has he got it? NIRODBARAN: He has bought a copy. SATYENDRA: No, I mean: has he got the divine life? SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, you mean that? SATYENDRA: Do you have to change much in the Psychology? SRI AUROBINDO: No —only adding a passage here and there, and one or two new chapters at the end. The Ideal I have to recast because of Hitler. He has brought new problems. Page-557 |